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What Edge and Base Angles Are Ya Setting For Hard Charging Carving??

What Edge & Base Angles You Setting For Hard Charging Carving??  

34 members have voted

  1. 1. So What Angles Ya Running For Hard Carving

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Curious if there's a consensus on Edge and Base angles Hard Chargers are running?.......  And post below with what your running if you picked other

Edited by barryj

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I’ve got 0-1 (bottom-side) on both Coilers and no detune.  Love it, and it holds up well (but I’m not often on blue ice).  I generally touch up the sides with diamond stones just before each wax, while I’ve got a clean base.  I tune my daughter’s skis at 0.5-3 and they require noticeably more love.

Edited by st_lupo

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I answered other as I typically stay with the manufactures tune/bevel and it varies by board manufacturer.  

I find, for me, having sharp and straight edges matters more than the angles of the bevels.

Edited by lonbordin
I had an errant word in there so I ground it off...

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First, it's a kind of a convention to call the angles from the same plane (base), so it would be 0.5° and 88° that I like the most. The file guides are also marked 90°, 88° and so on... 

When my edge starts to get very beat up, I might start hand tuning it down towards 89 or 90, rather then removing a pile of material. Same with the base angle, I might go from 0.5 to 1°... 

Mind you, when I received some demo boards from OES, some had 86° side. I did feel the difference! 

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6 hours ago, dredman said:

In Montucky...we ride...no tune...just ride..

I remember one year at SES, ATC ( 2016?)the Montucky boys kept me pretty busy in the garage. I will always remember looking at Johnsamos edges on the racing stripe board and they were perfect. Perfectly rounded. No nicks gouges, just rounded. Pull your finger nail across, no shavings.He thought he had about 2,000,000 ? vert on that board. Never tuned.There was some hard snow that year, so yea hard snow makes a difference. On the opposite side I know a guy that brings 2 boards to the hill. A morning board and an afternoon board. After you ride the boilerplate in the morning, the edges are shot and so you grab your afternoon board with new edges. I used to be pretty anal about edges. Now I’ll set the angles, usually 1/2 or 1/3 and just do some light diamond passes to remove burrs daily( rocks and bushes more common this year). Technique is by far the most important and goes a long way for sure, but when the snow is really hard ,edge sharpness does become more important. Put a good rider on hero snow with dull edges, I’ll bet he/she is going to have an awesome day. Put the same riders on really hard snow / Icey with dull edges, I bet they won’t be so happy. So I don’t hit my edges with the file that often when it’s softer snow. When it’s harder, then I think it’s time to use some of that Rockwell you paid for.

1 hour ago, big mario said:

sharp

E  Bellissimo. Of course when you’re making 6” trenches, you don’t need no stinkin edges.

Edited by digger jr

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So, I want Ya'll to 'consider' how you describe an 'edge' angle... The BASE is Flat, yes? Maybe, but, we'll take that as "likely" (and I'll show ya a Cruzer!) for a 'reference point'.  OK, so That's now Canon, set-in stone (but not in Kidwells, nor Joyride EF's). So, FROM THERE, THAT EXACT POINT, you're measuring the 'EDGE ANGLE'? Yeah, from There. OOOHH, alright, so, is it Obtuse, Right [90*], or Acute? Whaaa!? Go BACK, look up "GEOMETRY 101", 9th grade...OOh, yah, THAT Stuff. So, a 'Base Bevel' may be MORE than YOU figured (see, like I noted, the Base may have "EEK", Curves!!, in it!!) Often, now, boards come with a 'Base Bevel', put in IN THE MOLD, then refined on a base grind. IF YOU GRIND IT FLAT, you've taken 4-5 seasons out of the P-tex. Just a NOTE. So, a 'base' Bevel, Edge Detune, is, actually, a Decrease from a 'right angle' norm that we ASSUME is along the board's Edge, BUT, We haven't MARKED NOR NOTED WHERE the 'Bevel' starts in regards to the FLAT-Of-The-Base, against the board's Length!!  Have We? Did we? When?, Where?, How?! [I hope You have an Answer, per board, in Your quiver!]. So, there's THAT Issue... I'll let it perkallate , and You can offer references to such...

But, what Really Important here is this. The Board's Edge Angle. We assume it's 90*, a Right Angle, upon being made. So, then, from There, what is 'Sharper' mean? I Define it as being 'More Acute'  (9th grade, again, damn),  where the ANGLE gets Sharper than 90, or Less-Than-Right. Subtract from THERE. Now, IF the board you ride has 'Right Angles, but, also a Base Bevel.[?]. This is what I found in my '91 JoyRide EF. IT CAME WITH a 2* Base-Bevel, 2CM Inboards, and was ALREADY 2* ACUTE, so it had a 4*-from-90*-Edge, FROM THE FACTORY. A True Soft-boot Twin-tip, it gave Me my first-ever Looped-over-itself Carved line.  It was 153 CM, with 110cm of edge contact, using Elfgen tongued Softboot bindings, a Burton 9* +3* metal 5-hole cant, and a Nineteen inch stance; I was in Sorel Mc-Kinleys with heel-spurrs added. See, all things being "equal" in "tech", It shouldn't have been THIS GOOD, but, it was GREAT. I attribute this board's comfort level to my Dad's Engineering Mindset, where he Measured the "Base Bevel", and SEPARATED THAT from the 'Edge Angle', to give Me the perspective of BOTH Working for the better in certain attributes of my riding. I could Slay 'ON Edge', yet flip into a Blind-side Nose-roll with ease, and, I Knew Why! Do You?

 

 

 

 

Edited by Eric Brammer aka PSR
Oopsy, lysdexia, etc.

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All kidding aside, I'm going to listen to Goeff, and Jack and Steph and the Stratton crew, all excellent ice riders, Goeff rides 1-3, OK with me.

All of them race Nastar and have low handicaps on what are usually icy courses, this is a question related to hard icy conditions, not dissing soft or deep snow riders, but there's a difference.

BTW,  PSR, What's your Nastar Handicap? Mines 7  Got a 17=7 at Okemo the day Scott Maynard got a ?14.7= 4.7, Meeting Scott was a pleasure, I see he's racing again after a debilitating accident, good for him. He's #56, the year I met him he won the finals, biggly.

Check out #21, 24, 37, 51

Overall Snowboard Male Ranking
(2017-18 Season) 


 

Rank   CompetitorHometownHandicap         

 

1   Tahler MacBoyleChagrin Falls, OH9.78     

2   Jack MichaudFalmouth, ME11.91     

3   Cory Houston12.05     

4   Joe FrostRockford, IL12.39     

5   Ray Gilmore IIIIntervale, NH12.71     

6   Matt WheelerManchester, NH12.81     

7   Zachary WagnerBatavia, NY14.04     

8   Randy ImholteSauk Rapids, MN14.47     

9   Mort NybergTruckee, CA14.85     

10   Jason BurrillNew Gloucester, ME15.25     

11   Micheal SmithBillerica, MA16.05     

12   Curtis BoivinExeter, NH16.16     

13   Nate SoucyPortland, ME16.21     

14   Converse Fields17.33     

15   Nick HoweVerona, WI18.40     

16   Mike TrappColumbus, OH18.45     

17   Matt GreenmanOtsego, MI19.10     

18   Francis SmithOssipee, NH19.33     

19   Tim Smith19.39     

20   David PaquinGoffstown, NH20.28     

21   Jim CallenAspen, CO20.29     

22   David RhodesBenzonia, MI20.46     

23   Thomas Mathias20.72     

24   Geoff VinceletteSutton, MA20.80     

25   Mike RoccoTruckee, CA20.96     

26   Tim O'BrienLake Mills, WI22.11     

27   Eddie BerkeBow, NH22.17     

28   Sean LawlessWest Hartford, CT24.25     

29   Peter Holland24.57     

30   Brett NemkeMadison, WI25.05     

31   Dave Hamann25.49     

32   Alex FlynnELIZABETH, IL25.81     

33   Ronan PrestonTahoma, CA26.09     

34   Grant Holloway26.13     

35   Austin BurrBanner Elk, NC26.39     

36   John DevivoBethel, ME27.03     

37   Billy BordyHeber City, UT27.19     

38   Demian BrooksPark City, UT27.42     

39   Joshua MorrowHendersonville, NC27.44     

40   Jansen DahlWI27.82     

41   Carver Bowlby28.12     

42   Lars JensenFalls Church, VA28.13     

43   Troy McMullenClaysburg, PA28.49     

44   Jake Snowboard28.56     

45   Derek PersonAndover, MN29.34     

46   Adam CallowayAlanson, MI29.43     

47   Kyle WilsonGowen, MI29.63     

48   Derek JaniakManchester, NH30.10     

49   Peter BorrowsManchester, NH30.41     

50   Michael Waldrup30.44     

51   Neil SundayNew Cumberland, PA30.53     

52   Noah BethonicoSnowmass Village, CO30.55     

53   Michael Lavely30.56     

54   Derek DenoyerTraverse City, MI30.97     

55   Neil DonnelleySomerset, VA31.00     

56   Scott MaynardBolton, VT31.29     

57   Pat MooreLudlow, VT31.42     

58   Matt Van Steenis

 

Edited by ursle

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Used to mantain a typical race tune of 1°/3°, mainly because I was riding used boards from racers that were already set that way, but found that the edges seem to dull faster, wear faster, and was unnecessary unless riding ice a lot and/or racing.

Now I'm happy with a  ½°/2° bevel on my new boards. It works well enough on ice and the edges don't seem to need as frequent attention. Typical Minnesota conditions are firm, groomed hardpack sometimes with underlying ice if we've had a midseason thaw.

On hard snow and ice a good tune makes a noticeable difference in how a board handles. If you've ever ridden a used race board (Kessler, SG etc), part of the magic you feel is in the race tune.

On soft snow those smooth rounded edges might result in a smoother ride.:cool:

I believe I provided some amusement:lurk:for all the western mountain riders at the Bomber house in the "smokin' wax" garage:ices_ange when I came over one night to touch up my edges.:biggthump

Edited by bigwavedave

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Not sure how PSR's Nastar 'cap is relevant - fast is fast and he makes a good point about using a base of questionable flatness as a reference.

Oh, and he's pretty fast. He was nice enough to help me out briefly with some turning issues on hard snow some years ago and was basically just riding in front of me turn for turn so he could do real-time coaching. I was moving right along and obviously so was he, but he was riding switch.

FWIW My Coiler Racecarve was set up at 0.5/3° by Mike D and that worked well. My current Proteus seems to have all the crunch I need at 1/2°

Nastar is an excellent measure of speed through a Nastar course. When I was working at Mt Snow in the '70s the head of the Ski School was the National Pacesetter. He wasn't close to being the fastest freeskier.

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On 2/9/2018 at 2:59 PM, dredman said:

In Montucky...we ride...no tune...just ride..

Montucky theme song possiblities...

Elvis singing Old Montucky rain

Or

Big rock candy mountain with lyrics filled with Montucky and snowboarding references.

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6 hours ago, bigwavedave said:

 

On soft snow those smooth rounded edges might result in a smoother ride.:cool:

I believe I provided some amusement:lurk:for all the western mountain riders at the Bomber house in the "smokin' wax" garage:ices_ange when I came over one night to touch up my edges.:biggthump

I miss the “garage”. 

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On a related note I’ve never had base grind done on a board. I do notice when i set a base angle the base always seems a touch high, so I always have to put some kind of base angle to hit metal, I just take away some base material next to edge. Is that the main reason to grind, besides structure, to keep base angle near 0 for real hard snow?

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