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How you guys feeling about new soft boot carving phenomenon?

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3 hours ago, Pythmere said:

I just started snowboarding this year and carving has been my favorite thing to do so far. I got this board from Sean to carve in my soft boots and I am loving it so far. I tried forward angles and liked it, but I think I will stick to duck foot on this board and try to get a hard boot setup for next year.

Specs are as follows
Knapton Twin


160 cm length
29.5 cm waist width
8.734 m sidecut
 

20180209_124817.jpg

Why such a wide stance? Either you are very tall, in which case you could have ordered a longer board, or you are unnecessarily limiting yourself in mobility and board flex. 

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13 minutes ago, BlueB said:

Why such a wide stance? Either you are very tall, in which case you could have ordered a longer board, or you are unnecessarily limiting yourself in mobility and board flex. 

I am not too tall, just 188 cm. I had my stance at 58.5 cm which was fine, but after playing around I found it easier to get low with a stance of 63.5 cm. With 15/-15 duck foot angles it feels pretty mobile and the board is super stiff which gives me a lot of pop out of turns. I did like a narrower stance with higher angles though.

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Yeah, you could have ordered a longer board... 

The first stance sounds way more realistic, assuming you have an average leg length for your height. Even more so if the board is very stiff - very wide stance prevents smooth board flex through the middle section, especially on shorter boards. 

Stance that's too far from optimal, being either to narrow or too wide limits the range of motion. I've just discussed and agreed on that with about 20 of country's best instructors (all soft boot riders except me). 

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8 minutes ago, BlueB said:

Yeah, you could have ordered a longer board... 

The first stance sounds way more realistic, assuming you have an average leg length for your height. Even more so if the board is very stiff - very wide stance prevents smooth board flex through the middle section, especially on shorter boards. 

Stance that's too far from optimal, being either to narrow or too wide limits the range of motion. I've just discussed and agreed on that with about 20 of country's best instructors (all soft boot riders except me). 

Alright, I will give the narrower angle another try. As far as board length I was riding a 163 before this board, but I like a little bit shorter to do flatland tricks on. The plan is to get a dedicated longer carving alpine board and hard boot set up next year, but i need to do some more research into hard boots, bindings and board. Thanks for the advice, its always appreciated :)

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49 minutes ago, BlueB said:

Yeah, you could have ordered a longer board... 

The first stance sounds way more realistic, assuming you have an average leg length for your height. Even more so if the board is very stiff - very wide stance prevents smooth board flex through the middle section, especially on shorter boards. 

Stance that's too far from optimal, being either to narrow or too wide limits the range of motion. I've just discussed and agreed on that with about 20 of country's best instructors (all soft boot riders except me). 

Here it is with a 58.5 cm stance.

 

20180209_173718.thumb.jpg.4b18d7a5eaedb9df390a7262f4ff9aae.jpg

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Interesting. 

I have a 163 twin with a 25cm waist. I run it with a 21.5" (54.5cm) stance. I do run forward angles (27/9) but I can't imagine bending with the feet that far apart. 

I say take a screwdriver to the hill and try out a couple of different stances. You might be surprised what feels good.

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3 hours ago, Pythmere said:

Here it is with a 58.5 cm stance.

 

20180209_173718.thumb.jpg.4b18d7a5eaedb9df390a7262f4ff9aae.jpg

Looking a bit better. I like the screwdriver idea though :) 

What I like to see on all-around boards, for all-around performance, is that bindings divide the effective edge in approximately 3 thirds. If the stance feels too short that way, the board is too short too... 

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So, I'm watching this with an interest, being that My stances were 'set' 20 years ago, yet I still see many AASI guys push for wider stances, and, without any Inward Canting (something, often, unknown to them!), yet, they cannot control the board upon putting Thrust into the board's Tail, nor, can the 'slide' the hip Fore+Aft thru the turn's arc, thus controlling pressure as-it-arcs, but instead, are forced to be 'reactive' to the flex an forces the Board Inputs upon them! It's putting the Cart b4 the Horse, and hoping it wants to push like a Donkey..

I've stated my preferred stances on many occasions, but my Inseam is 'only' 31" on a 5'-9" frame. Still, 20" up to 22" seems like a notable 'Average' point-set [even without canting/lifts involved], and beyond that is likely an exception (or, ought to be). Does AASI even KNOW that Canting exists?, Do They KNOW that Highbacks Rotate within the Horseshoe? What of Toe or Heel Lift?, or Angles [GASP] beyond 21* of Binding Angle? I will NOT EVEN touch upon 3-rd Straps with Locked-down Highbacks, nor RISERS.... AASI Has Dumbed itself into an Ideology that pre-cludes Ideas that Pre-Date It! 

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Oh, and that Donek is slowly evolving into something a bit closer to my '93,& '94 Gordo FF's, which were Sym-Asym, FAT, Stiff, with intensely tight sidecuts. I still have the '94 (my ex, unfortunately has the '93, in Alabama), which can be be pumped along Okemo's 'Cat Nap' well enuff to pass Poling-Skiers with ease, while Accelerating. It can Loop a Carve (in softies) on Stratton's Lift-line. On Either Edge. I won the Instructor's "Best Carve" prize the last year I was there; in Soft, soft, Softboots...

 

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1 hour ago, BlueB said:

Looking a bit better. I like the screwdriver idea though :) 

What I like to see on all-around boards, for all-around performance, is that bindings divide the effective edge in approximately 3 thirds. If the stance feels too short that way, the board is too short too... 

I am going to bring a drill up and try out some different stance lengths and some more forward angles. I would do it this weekend but Snowbird is way to busy on a weekend to try anything new out. Do you know what forward angles would be good to try on a softie set up?

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28 minutes ago, lordmetroland said:

How you guys feeling about new soft boot carving phenomenon? Based on my own observations today, Ryan Knapton's sideslipping how-tos have gotten more traction than his carving videos...

I think carving in general will always be less popular, but I have started to see more people carving. Watching others carve boards is what dragged me away from skiing. I just think that most people going to the mountain are looking for a leisure activity and are not actively trying to improve. I also notice that when riding with friends you end up going way to fast to actually work on your carving. Furthermore going back to greens, catching edges and feeling like a beginner all over again inst to enticing if you only get to snowboard 5 or 6 days out of the year.

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51 minutes ago, Pythmere said:

Do you know what forward angles would be good to try on a softie set up

I have stated this many times, but, MY preferences may not apply. But, if you're coming 'from' a 'duck' stance, simply keep your stance width. Then , 'Rotate' BOTH bindings equally Forwards. You're at a 'Splay', or difference in foot angle, that's Working for you. But, the Highbacks, they need to start being gently tweaked as you Increase Leverages put upon them.

Two main variables to consider: One is the 'rotation' the highback can be set at in relation to the baseplate. The idea is to try and mimic the board's heelside edge-line. So, move the front highback at the hinge, such that the fore-most hinge is moved inwards towards the board's lengthwise center, while the aft hinge-point is moved closer to the board heel-edge. It varies in relation to binding angles, so use with an eye towards moderation (and, tweakage, even!). The Other is to set the Forward Lean at the best 'balance point' for your heelside carves. Mine, it's with the front a tad more upright than the rear, but, I'm usually tossing my Ass further downhill and lower than other softbooter's would consider Sane. Play with how YOU best Balance in the turn to decide. Bring that Screwdriver! And, even, mark the changes.Set/reset accordingly.

My stance, in softies, varies, but stays between 22" and 19", depending on board/mission/vintage (some Olden Boards, 19" is "WIDE"!), and I try to stay at around 21" nominally (Hard or Soft), as with a 31" inseam, that's FAR Enuff for the Swagger to Hang loose. Any Wider, and the Sway would impinge. {ow!}   

You need to understand this; where you Pressure a Board impacts How It Bends. And a more Diagonal Stance affects more of the Board's edge. This is why I've felt, for 25+ years, that the BEST angles are between 15* and 60*, but with a 'Splay' difference of around 12*-15*, such that you might be at 30*F/15*R, or 18*F/3* R, or 55*F/42*R.; The Diagonals of Pressure Upon the Board; That Matters... But, follow what's comfortable for You; Do Experiment, and change stuff up. I HAD TO, as Boards EVOLVED QUICKER THAN OUR RIDING, but, that Also, made ME Aware that THINGS COULD & DO, CHANGE. So, Change it Up, but know 'WHY' you made a given change..

Edited by Eric Brammer aka PSR

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26 minutes ago, Eric Brammer aka PSR said:

I have stated this many times, but, MY preferences may not apply. But, if you're coming 'from' a 'duck' stance, simply keep your stance width. Then , 'Rotate' BOTH bindings equally Forwards. You're at a 'Splay', or difference in foot angle, that's Working for you. But, the Highbacks, they need to start being gently tweaked as you Increase Leverages put upon them.

Two main variables to consider: One is the 'rotation' the highback can be set at in relation to the baseplate. The idea is to try and mimic the board's heelside edge-line. So, move the front highback at the hinge, such that the fore-most hinge is moved inwards towards the board's lengthwise center, while the aft hinge-point is moved closer to the board heel-edge. It varies in relation to binding angles, so use with an eye towards moderation (and, tweakage, even!). The Other is to set the Forward Lean at the best 'balance point' for your heelside carves. Mine, it's with the front a tad more upright than the rear, but, I'm usually tossing my Ass further downhill and lower than other softbooter's would consider Sane. Play with how YOU best Balance in the turn to decide. Bring that Screwdriver! And, even, mark the changes.Set/reset accordingly.

My stance, in softies, varies, but stays between 22" and 19", depending on board/mission/vintage (some Olden Boards, 19" is "WIDE"!), and I try to stay at around 21" nominally (Hard or Soft), as with a 31" inseam, that's FAR Enuff for the Swagger to Hang loose. Any Wider, and the Sway would impinge. {ow!}   

You need to understand this; where you Pressure a Board impacts How It Bends. And a more Diagonal Stance affects more of the Board's edge. This is why I've felt, for 25+ years, that the BEST angles are between 15* and 60*, but with a 'Splay' difference of around 12*-15*, such that you might be at 30*F/15*R, or 18*F/3* R, or 55*F/42*R.; The Diagonals of Pressure Upon the Board; That Matters... But, follow what's comfortable for You; Do Experiment, and change stuff up. I HAD TO, as Boards EVOLVED QUICKER THAN OUR RIDING, but, that Also, made ME Aware that THINGS COULD & DO, CHANGE. So, Change it Up, but know 'WHY' you made a given change..

That is some really awesome advice. I have tweaked the high back to match the heel side edge in duck stance, but I did not even think about changing the forward lean independently. I will start to tweak on Tuesday and report back :) Alas, weekends its hard enough to get turns in let alone try new stuff...

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16 hours ago, Eric Brammer aka PSR said:

<snip>This is why I've felt, for 25+ years, that the BEST angles are between 15* and 60*, but with a 'Splay' difference of around 12*-15*, such that you might be at 30*F/15*R, or 18*F/3* R, or 55*F/42*R.; <snip>

That's surprisingly close to Pure Boardings advocating 10*+ of splay in their setup...

Edited by lonbordin
It's a spectrum, I tell ya' what.

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51 minutes ago, erazz said:

That's why plates rule! :eplus2:

Would you recommend a plate for a first hard boot set up? I plan on getting boots/binding/board next year but I haven't found much info on plates yet.

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7 minutes ago, Pythmere said:

Would you recommend a plate for a first hard boot set up? I plan on getting boots/binding/board next year but I haven't found much info on plates yet.

No. Get up to speed first.

http://www.apexsnowboard.com/graduated-plate-system/

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45 45,  figured half of 90 was 45...same 20.5" stance for all equipment from 173 down to a 156 

with toes on Edge and Heels on Edge...just lucky I guess, same set up for over 30 years and over 30 different Sticks

New SB Carving is no different than Old SB Carving...You either Carve or you don't

Actually I see a lot more Skiers Carving lately up on Ajax, with maybe 5% of the SB there getting some as well

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On 2/9/2018 at 2:54 PM, Pythmere said:

Specs are as follows
Knapton Twin


160 cm length
29.5 cm waist width
8.734 m sidecut

 

I have to ask what size foot u have 

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4 minutes ago, sic t 2 said:

 

I have to ask what size foot u have 

Size US 11 mens. The extra width is to layout carves duck footed without getting boot out. I was riding a 26.3cm waist before this one, but I couldn't get very low before boot out would launch me to the ground :\

Edited by Pythmere

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